Fishing.

[jinxdojo]

How could you not see this one coming? I know this is a touchy subject for some people, but I can't fail to suggest it.

The ultimate question, I know, is whether or not the data is even available somewhere. While it's obviously possible via certain "pay" clients, I recognize that neither FFACT nor the Windower directly report that data; and, that's assuming there is data to report. From what I've read, there is never a piece of data in the memory directly indicative of rod positioning. So perhaps this is a difficult feature, but it would certainly be a great one.

I know there is debate on the morality of such an issue. Believe me when I say I don't want things to get out of hand. But, as the good people making the windower said when allowing plugins: it was either allow all or none, for better or worse. I think this issue is similar in that the net positive will be greater than the net negative. I hope there is some agreement out there. Thank you for your consideration.

~Jinx

[TinyTerror]

The memlocs for the fishing stuff are kown, but kept private for good reason. You can only imagine what SE would do if they got released. I take the high road on this issue, and will not be adding exploitive fishing features to Lunar. I would rather have fish botting be tough than the windower getting killed by SE. I wish I could help you on this one, but there are some things that we have to give up to keep what we have.

[jinxdojo]

Call it "high road" if you like, but not including such is no more right or wrong then a ripping/audio program not allowing converting of certain proprietary formats. Its just lacking a facet: incomplete. Of course, everyone's morality varies, and that is fair. So, if you want to say you're taking the logical high ground, I can understand. But, what you're doing is already in violation of the ToS, so please, don't imply to be taking moral high ground. :)

That said, I completely understand and agree with your reasoning for this. I guess that is one of the reasons I'm not much in favor of Lunar, as it links everything to the Windower, requiring yet another thing for both you and them to consider. That's also the reason I probably won't be making much use Lunar in the future. It simply doesn't suit my purposes. I don't need fancy on-screen GUI, etc. Give me function. :) I assure you Tiny, it's nothing personal. I wish Lunar the best of luck. It's just, as of now, it offers me nothing more than AutoTerror did, except learning another set of language syntax. I'm sure many will find a great myriad of uses for it, though, so I think it's definitely for the better that you're working so hard on it.

With FFACT not releasing the memlocs either, I guess I'll have to resort to a pay bot of some sort unless my friend at XUnleashed comes through for me. It's sad: I don't need to fish constantly for hours (nor do I think it's possible post-update); I simply want to be able to utilize the little time I can spend on the game. Anyway, I'm sure you would help if you could, and for that I commend you, Tiny. Not many people out there are in this for the benefit of everyone. Just promise me if FFACT ever does add such data, you'll work it into an AutoTerror update sometime. :) Thanks as always.

Jinx

[TinyTerror]

Remember that this is just a game. Autoterror, Lunar, and any other program that I write in the future are all things that I make in my spare time. I don't get paid for my work; I do it because I enjoy it. When I no longer feel like working on a project, I stop. I'm sorry that you don't think my work is "complete". If I wanted people to be able to make fire and forget fish bots, let me tell you it would have happened a long time ago. Could I do it? In a heartbeat. I refuse to do it because I don't think it contributes to the game. Yeah people want it, but I don't really care. So if you want to imply that I have a duty to improve closed projects, thats fine. Until I start taking donations for my work or otherwise benefitting from the long hours I spend getting fat in front of this computer writing code, the choice remains mine and mine alone. If you want to modify autoterror to suit your needs, you have my support. But when you imply that I owe you something because the software I provide to you for free doesn't quite live up to your standards, it's more than slightly irritating. Im not trying to sound like an ass here, but i guess your last post sorta rubbed me the wrong way.

[jinxdojo]

Wow... you apparently completely misinterpreted my post. I thought I made my position clear.

Of course it's just a game. We know you don't make money off of these. As I specifically stated: "I commend you... Not many people out there are in this for the benefit of everyone." Yes, in another post I requested you update AutoTerror a bit. You explained it was a lot of work, and I told you I was "disappointed" but "understood." That is your right.

And, for the record, I'm not asking you to make any "fire and forget" fishing bots. I'm simply asking for the ability to get the information: what people do with that is obviously a judgement call. I feel it has the potential to contribute immensely to the game. You don't. You've made your feelings very clear on this, so please don't bother elaborating.

I never implied you have a duty to finish your projects: although, yes, in an ideal world, I do think projects should be "completed" to the best of their ability. Of course, that's part of the reason I get very little done: but, when I do something, I do it well. Having said that, do not misinterpret that to imply that AutoTerror was not done well. It was. I am simply noting the differences in our viewpoints in attempt to clarify.

Honestly, if you took donations, AutoTerror is one of the few things I might consider donating to. Yes, it is inherently your choice whether or not to continue working on your projects, regardless of whether or not you accept donations (of course, unless you do so implying future work, though: most people I know donate only for existing work). I would modify AutoTerror if I had the ability. You provide source code, which is of great use to the savvy. Believe me, that is appreciated as well.

Tiny, if you are not enjoying yourself while doing this, by all means: stop. We appreciate what you've done so far and will understand if you are unable to continue. But do not pretend as if I'm being ungrateful by disagreeing with your viewpoint and making a suggestion. I am not implying any obligation on your part, only making a request in the appropriate forum. I have made no repeated requests and accepted your reasoning for rejection without question. Do not treat me as if I have somehow deliberately attempted to get on your nerves. I am not that type of person. So, please, don't be irritated, stop being an ass, and come back to earth. :)

Unfortunately, I find this attitude with a lot of people who make freeware: they take all suggestions as negative criticism. Please don't make that mistake. If we didn't give a damn about your project, we wouldn't say anything at all. Thank you,

Jinx

[TinyTerror]

I think it would help if I explained in detail why I stopped working on autoterror. There is a lot more to it than me just deciding that I was bored with it.

1. Modifiability

Autoit is not meant to be extended or modified by anyone but the original authors. To expose a C++ function in a way that didn't scatter code throughout the entire application, I had to write two wrapper functions per function I wanted to expose. This made it extremely time consuming to add and test new features. It took me on average about an hour to add and test each new function, and thats not including the time required to write the actual function code. Thats just integration and testing. Autoit also has little to no documentation available about it's internal workings. Changing anything about it beyond adding simple functions would require a very large amount of research. I don't have the time to do this. I would rather spend all of my effort writing new functionality into my code rather than wrestling with an integration framework that is poorly designed and difficult to use.

2. License changes and partial source

While I was working on autoterror (soon after the first very basic release), AutoIT stopped providing the source code for their program. I already had the source, so this wasn't an immediate problem. The problem occurred when the Autoit Dev team changed the licensing from GPL to a proprietary EULA that made it illegal to distribute any modifications to autoit even with the modified source code made available to the public. Autoit now allows a partial download of their source, but key features are left out, making compilation into the full publicly available binary impossible. I am not going to risk a lawsuit for illegally using and distributing a modified version of a proprietary piece of software under a changed name.

3. Low level of integration with FFXI

No matter what I did to autoterror, it was still a 3rd party program running separately from FFXI. Autoit had no reliable method for user input, no reliable method for user output, and was rapidly falling prey to SE's attempts to block its use. Autoterror is extremely easy for SE to detect, making it risky to use. There was no way to control autoterror from inside FFXI, and no way to get output into the game without alerting the GM's via massive use of manually entered echo commands. Using autoterror to try to control the game was like trying to do brain surgery with an ice pick. Unless you know exactly what you were doing and are an experienced coder, its extremely difficult.

4. Limited scope of the autoit language

The biggest thing about autoit was that it was essentially a toy language. It had a purpose, and it served that purpose well. Trying to do anything else with it was rather difficult. And it was slow. Users may not have noticed this much since autoit and autoterror worked as 3rd part applications, but anyone who looked under the hood would see know. Autoit is just not built for any kind of speed. In addition, the built in function set is purpose targeted for the automation of windows tasks. More than half of these functions simply do not work when applied to FFXI. I will give autoit some credit. Some of the input simulation functions were useful, but thats about the only strength the language had.

So there are my reasons for stopping work on autoterror. During it's time, autoterror was a good tool, but with the advent of the windower's plugin based architecture, it quickly became obsolete.

As for the fishing features that are the main topic of this thread, I want to make some things clear about these as well. FFXIRead, the library that I use to get data from FFXI, is not usable by the public. Besides starhawk, I am the only other person that has access to it. This comes with some agreements that I had to make in order to make use of it. Starhawk and I both agreed that giving people explicit access to fishing info might not be such a good idea. That might change in the future, but for now, thats where we both stand. I still play FFXI for fun, and the last thing I want to do is produce code that degrades that. For every one person that would use it in moderation, there are a dozen or more that wouldn't. So it's not even that much of an ethics issue anymore. I made some promisses to friends that I wouldn't use thier code to allow people to exploit the game. I was asked not to provide fishing info, and im sticking to that.

[TinyTerror]

Also, I don't take suggestions for new features as negative criticism. Everyone simple needs to understand that not everything they ask for is going to be done.

[jinxdojo]

... I hate this forum system. I just typed a very appropriate response, accidently hit "back" on my mouse, and was unable to retrieve my text. ... I'll respond again when I have the time to deal with forum system bullshit. Until then, /nod

[TinyTerror]

Yeah, its not exactly the best.